argon regulator problems

It is cheaper and safer to just get a new one. If you need to you could take it to a welding supply store and see if there is an adapter. You might have a bad diaphragm in you regulator. The most common cylinders are 5 lb, 10 lb, 20 lb, and 50 lb cylinders. Having problems with a high pressure nitrogen regulator. I once had a customer call in and asked me if we had "EHN O" oil in stock.

can you use an oxygen reg on an argon bottle for increased flow. When this happens the diaphragm is shot and needs to be replaced. On my mm130, I didn't close the valve for over 6 months and had no noticeable loss of pressure (forgot when I left it and didn't come back to it for half a year while I was away at college). All times are GMT-6. We have a nitrogen regulator and the male that fits into the nitrogen tank is worn out.. How do I change it?

Oxygen, nitrogen, helium, and argon for example are pumped into cylinders as a gas at about 2,300 psi for larger cylinders. I get hardly any volume or pressure from my welding nozzle. The nut and nipple should seat without any Teflon tape. The British connection has a built in washer (white and quite large) which also came with a rubber O-ring (gasket). The fins on the flow gauge create more surface area so that the flow gauge allows the ambient air to warm the regulator, thus creating CO2 gas. Even though this flow gauge looks radically different than the one previously discussed, its operation is the same with one exception. Do not use teflon tape for the threads on the cylinder to CO2 nut connection. Copyright 2022 Swagelok Company. It is pretty simple to repair, but be very careful not to damage the diaphragm. Blown safeties happen periodically. !cp-$C|dDW3NTn?$=)%VUYMq,]p&00YP:@j^bP{{~[7mH$Xcx) Download Your Visual Guide to Regulator Troubleshooting. If there is a leak you can sometimes hear it or feel it coming from the regulator. I've always wondered, what REALLY is the difference between a $200 one and a $40 one. If you have found that you do have the correct type of regulator installed, move on to Step 2. I have an Acetylene regulator, got it from ebay. All connections are good and sealed. If you have a 5 lb liquid CO2 that weighs 12 lbs full and you weigh it after using it a while and it weighs 9 lbs, you have used 3 lbs of the 5 lbs of CO2. zwS ~!CnPz[LJrS?Sk {l)/b6f00D`4a\ a0gQ&$911NQ[ /F""$FEH(OF)LR#g).KtC<9$[6"N7sB,1 E 'nFlr Usually less than $15. That is a metal to metal connection. The external repairs of regulators are pretty simple, but if done wrong can be dangerous. ironhorse64 (author) on September 22, 2012: @anonymous: The nut and nipple will not fit onto a liquid argon. You really cant do much with the regs. If you need to control pressure from upstream, then you need a back-pressure regulator. It appears the tube was installed using plumber's Teflon tape as were all other fittings on the regulator. it is definitly not any part after the regulator Terry. He replied "For my regulatorit says right on the gauge to use "EHN O" oil right on it." That is one of the reasons they have different fittings. It has been working fine ever since. If the tank pressure is so unreliable, how can you tell how full the cylinder actually is? I am not sure if this has been posted before but we are having a problem with our Dual stage Co2 regulators. Learn how to minimize droop and flatten regulator flow curves with various dome loaded regulator configurations explained by Jon Kestner. As the CO2 warms it will fill the top of the cylinder with gas and the lower portion of the cylinder will remain a liquid until a time comes where the head pressure drops and allows more of the liquid to become gas. Pressure regulators are designed to control system pressure while accounting for changes in system parameters. Additional regional languages may be available on your local Swagelok Sales and Service Center's websites. Speak with a pressure regulator specialist. There are times when the flow rate is so great that these will even freeze up. To give you the best possible experience, this site uses cookies. When I bought it, i didn't realize that the inlet connetion was CGA 510 but my bottle takes only CGA 520 inlet connection. Periodically the needles get bent, don't return to zero, or even get totally pegged and stay. Can I use an Acetylene regulator on an Argon tank? The raise in LP is random, I find 50 - 65 psi in the morning and when coming home I find it at 40 psi stable. ]50?{73w~A*h=?4ArwhLujX(dT4i InTy:

The best way is to know what size of cylinder you have. Sounds like crappy Chinese reg with crap in it (some come that way.). At 1 bubble per second of Co2, the LP is 40 psi. Sometimes gas will come out of holes in the body of the regulator or out of safeties that look like a hex nut screwed into the body. If this is your first visit, be sure to Don't really know much about regulators but there doesn't really seem that there is that much which can go wrong with them. HubPages is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. All times are GMT-6.

I installed the regulator on the tank with a new washer and cut the CO2 tank on and let it set the gauges. I'll try and narrow it down with a leak detector, but it is obviously a pretty slow leak My regulator appears to be a cheap one so I doubt I can find a rebuild kit. thx tman. The LP does drop back down to a stable 40 psi. More than likely parts aren't available for them. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker. Post flow is typically 10 seconds after you terminate the arc. These regulators take a tank pressure of 2,200 psi and drop it down to where the gauge reads in "CFH" or "cubic feet per hour." With years of use creep will increase until it is excessive to free flow were gas flow is only restricted not stopped. Wow, great replies. It is just good customer service to do this and creates an impression of goodwill with the customer. Hi. The tank pressure gauge seems like it is always almost full and then before you know it the tank is empty. If you have determined undersizing as your issue, selecting a regulator with a larger flow coefficient can help reduce the likelihood of unwanted outlet pressure drops. If you have a good regulator (Victor, Smith, Harris) in most cases they are worth repairing. If it leaks at the cylinder you could have a bad thread on the cga fitting or the thread on the cylinder valve. I would have gladly paid $50 for a replacement. Regulators with two gauges are called "two-stage" regulators. Remember to be careful, do not use oil, and replace gauges one at a time with the exact pressure reading gauge as the stock equipment. ironhorse64 is a welding expert and is adept at troubleshooting welding systems. It is not a good idea to run any gas into a regulator that has been used for oxygen.. Can I use an Oxygen gauge on a Liquid Argon Bottle for regulating. Your ability to identify the cause of unexpected pressure changes is helpful in rectifying the issue before it becomes a bigger problem. wrap the threads of the new gauge with Teflon tape. The flow seem to max out at 4 or 5. What you want to do is to weigh the CO2 cylinder when it is fullyou'll need to know the weight of the empty cylinder as well.

And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at. When I set a higher bps, it drops further down. Most gauges are 1/4" pipe thread and the 1 1/2" gauges are 1/8" pipe thread. Learn how to accurately design and build a process line with a back-pressure regulator. }m7~x4?n1_/~`\wua~~^zCx7}L wl*W/,,Mown Will an oxygen regulator work just as a test to see if bottle is filled close to proper psi.? If pressure is rising beyond your set pressure, this condition is most commonly attributable to one of two issues. They cost less than a repair. Cylinders of carbon dioxide or CO2 are different than most gas cylinders. I have a single stage regulator on a 5 lb Co2 tank used on aquariums. It will not budge. does this sound like bad regulator or did they possibly give me an empty bottle. If you wer going to use a regulatr a helium or nitrogen would work. The biggest problem that a regulator can have is when the outlet gauge starts to rise and just keeps going until it is pegged. My regulator seems to say its empty yet the pressure bubble still shows flow when the seleniod trips. My take on it - NORMAL if you can find no leaks in your fittings. Research labs will frequently have this style of regulator in tandem with test equipment. My High pressure is steady at 800 psi while my Low pressure goes up and down depending on my needle valve settings. I unscrew the "T" everytime when not in use. I agree with Hank. If you are unsure, you can work with your regulator supplier to identify the appropriate type of regulator for your process. CO2 is extremely cold. Back-pressure regulators can effectively control upstream pressure within a sampling system process linewhen set up correctly. Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by.

I have a CO2 regulator that has a leak where the high pressure supply nipple tube fits into the regulator. I would not try to cut corners and lower this by too much (if it's adjustable on the Sync 200). @anonymous: If you are still having problems, take it to a local welding supply company and see if they can help. This page was generated at 03:20 PM. Remember: Do not mix oil and oxygen. He was quoted something like $65 to have one repaired the he found another place did in house for cheap. Explore alternative regulator options. ?t Is there a better, longer lasting one????? When the solenoid is off (whole system off) , my LP raises. The "tip" that meets with the bottle should have a hex shape on the end that a socket wrench should fit over. This is caused by the effort required for gas pressure to close valve. My buddy up in Ks had the same thing. I'm actually switching to a gas saver setup to see if it will help. I+.. Regulators take a high-pressure gas like oxygen and reduce it to a useable pressure for uses like oxy-acetylene cutting. Oxygen cylinders are filled to a pressure of over 2,200 psi and need a regulator to reduce pressure to 30 psi to cut steel. These regulators keep the outlet pressure at a consistent level even as the cylinder pressure lowers. Simply look for the bubbles. Check the labels. Supply pressure effect, also known as dependency, is an inverse relationship between inlet and outlet pressure variables within a regulator. Then apply smooth even pressure. Or is it dropping below your set pressure downstream? Who knows, I would just check with bubbles myself and try to locate a leak.

This CO2 regulator is used in high flow applications.

If this is the case then there are finned flow gauges that you can plug into a 110v outlet to power an internal heater. I haven't been on Squidoo in some time. It can go either way. If youd like to learn more about our cookie policy pleaseclick here. It might look different than the one you have but they should have something that will work. What's the story? The only machine I have that does not leak down is my Passport. I cannot hear any leaks, and im thinking i could hear that big a leak. I strongly suggest that you find an argon, nitrogen or helium regulator to achieve your desired results. JavaScript is disabled. Leaks can happen when cylinder valves are not shut off after use. If you have an outlet gauge on your regulator and it is "pegged" I would invest in a new regulator depending on how much you paid for your regulator. I bought a CO2 regulator and need to swap out the inlet nipple that's installed ( with a rounded nose ) for one that has a flat face, to fit the CO2 tank. So, what happens when a pressure regulator fails or malfunctions? This method involves installing two single-stage regulators in a series or combining the regulators into a single assembly. https://www.swagelok.com/en/blog/troubleshoot-common-regulator-problems. I did take mine apart and visually inspected for damage to the diaphragm, but it appeared to be ok. You are using an out of date browser. ironhorse64 (author) on January 01, 2013: @anonymous: No you cannot. If these common issues do not appear to be the source of your regulator issues, a more complex issue may be at play. x][q~@2~Z$1l _U}$dwuo}|?

You might want to take your regulator to a local welding supply and have them hook it up to a full cylinder and see what happens, while switch off regulator still gas coming. When they are drawing gas through they sound like a chirping bird and it get louder over time. What happens is the liquid CO2 in the lower portion of the cylinder is changing to a gaseous state creating head pressure then it is used. I understand if I do use it, not to load it on and just keep it on the threads. That's why you charge more, to cover those expenses. If the diaphragm seals completely, then you would be measuring the high side. I could ratchet strap it to a post or something. Once that is done, I cut the tank off to see if the pressure holds or drops. use some common sense for your situation. I can't get the nipple that's installed to come out. Dunno lol, How big / heavy is the bottle? Thanks! Why do we even need regulators? Though there are many factors throughout an industrial fluid system that may contribute to pressure variations, there are a few common issues you may be able to identify and resolve.

Hope that helps. There is an adapter that is available that you could just screw on. Don't use it much. I can put it back on the threads, but will I run a risk of it contimanting the welds ? The tube is left-hand threaded. Either way, they will read flow rate in cubic feet per hour or CFH. Thanks! I also have a homebuilt beer kegerator setup that I put together.

Plus it is not good to introduce a high pressure into a regulator that has been used for a fuel gas. Is pressure rising beyond your set pressure upstream? What is wrong?

Now, my problem is that it's leaking so badly from the inlet connection thread. Many key components, including pressure regulators (or pressure-reducing valves), are critical in maintaining your necessary process conditions. It sounds like either a leaking diaphragm or seat in the regulator .

I live in the northwest and where I work we do the install for free and just pay for the gauge. A two-stage regulator will have a bulb on the back. This is an easy fix. If the pressure gauge does not show pressure and is bad they can replace it. they are mostly a dime a dozen nowadays. If you look closely at a regulator gauge you will see the instructions "USE NO OIL." Over time gas flow will erode groove across orifice seating surface and across soft seal that mates with orifice. It helps keep the tungsten protected while it's hot, along with keeping the weld area shielded until it has had time to cool. Regulators can be rebuilt but those used on kegorators are usually inexpensive and more cost effective to replace. There is a rebuild kit that should fix the problem for $40. If the flow gauge isn't able to warm the liquid to a gaseous state it will spit out small pieces of dry ice. @chuckwagonne: Most regulator pressure gauges will have two gauges on it. Your supplier should be able to help you size your regulator appropriately for your application. Will stay at 200psi when the machine is not running. Make sure that it is left handed.

depending on the brand it may not be worth the trouble, ??? I have two regulators and three flow meters presently. These are just a few of its uses. JavaScript is disabled. For example, a regulator that incorporates a balanced poppet design can help minimize the area on which the inlet pressure can have an effect. Clearly, it was useless. I have done leak tests, I have also purge dirt out of my solenoid. I have tried with a pipe wrench and with large slip-joint pliers. The dropping of the weight is an example of the high pressure of the gas coming in contact with the oil. If pressure is dropping beyond your set pressure, the most common cause is that your regulator is undersized for your applications flow requirements. @jamikcha: If you mean it leaks where the nipple goes into the regulator you should have a piece of Teflon tape wrapped around the threads. I ended up spending $70 odd on having Starrett repair a dial indicator. When full it will read about 250 PSI. You could even go into a local welding supply and they might replace the gauge for just the price of the gauge. A new regulator will have small amount of regulator pressure creep from set pressure while gas is flowing to slightly higher pressure when flow stops. What I usually do when I have a stubborn nipple is to push the nut back to the body of the regulator to expose the end of the nipple that goes to the tank then find a 6 point socket that fits over the end of the nipple. A pressure regulator will read in PSI not CFH. When I pulled the trigger I'd get a puff or pssttt of gas, but the flow gage would be down to 20 or so (normal), but once I let go of the trigger it would creep up to the peg again. i say buy a new one, for one not worth the safety issue, and getting one repaired is too costly noe days, unless its a two hundred dollar reg., the 50 dollar one will do fine, or pick up a low end flow gauge for 75-85 dollars.repairs should be done by trained proffesionals for safety reasons, unless your changing a nipple of something small like that.

If pure oxygen or high-pressure gas comes in contact with oil it can ignite and cause a fire. Never use oil on any gauges or regulators. Sometimes regulators will freeze just by high usage such as blowing glass or scrapping. ironhorse64 (author) on October 21, 2012: @anonymous: Oxygen regulators have a different fitting than what an argon bottle will accept. Full cylinders are below 300 psi and delivery pressure is less than 15 psi. The second likely potential cause of unwanted pressure increases is the supply pressure effect (SPE), where a change in outlet pressure occurs due to a change in the inlet (or supply) pressure. I just broke a second argon flow meter in just about that number of years. When I closed the bottle the line pressure would drain much quicker than normalmine typically has taken daysdoes this sound like a regulator issue, solenoid, any clues would be great. The application of the wrong type of regulator is a common mistake that can compromise your process. Any decent welding shop should do a "while you wait" repair on it for pretty cheap. Within 12 hours, the gauges are back to 0. Use a ratchet with the longest handle you have and use a piece of pipe over the handle of the ratchet if needed for leverage. Crx, I have the exact same gauge set as you, when I close the bottle valve the pressure gauge slowly drops, takes an hour or so to read 0 psi. If your regulator supplier is knowledgeable about additional areas of fluid system operation, they may be able to help you perform a more robust evaluation to identify any issues. I just changed my argon co2 mix bottle with one from my local welding supply shop. You might have to replace the nut and nipple if they are severely scarred from the wrench and pliers. Repair kit is $40. So many of my friends have the cheap Chinese ones and it seems like they are doing fine.

Does gas 'go off'? Most likely a dirty seat. What is causing the problem? Removed the inlet from my regulator and installed the one i bought online. It will literally blow the input gauge apart. Yesterday my regulator on my MM175 was doing weird things. still flowing and still reads empty Ive tapped on it everything, for a week now still flowing?? The units are around 2 years old and we have it happening on a number of different regulators. I don't know about bleeding down, as this could simply be the valve or something else leaking on the bottle. The idea of a dip-tube is to draw all the liquid from the bottom of the cylinder, so if you turn the thing upside down you would be making matters worse try & get yourself a proper welding cylinder, done it with a fire extinguisher at a push you can buy a heater turns liquid gaseous lol. CO2 regulators are probably one of the more misunderstood regulators. You are using an out of date browser. With small usage and large cylinder this could be the case. Small leaks can also happen at any place where two parts come together. Be careful not to get a flow regulator confused with a pressure regulator. I am using co2 to run a mig welder, at the regulator it shows less than 2 psi but at the mig gun 35 cfh (no orifices in place )what would cause this note we have 15 other welding machines that are set between 30 - 40 psi and the cfh at mig gun is close to what the regulator reads, On my 450 victor oxygen regulator when I open up the oxygen tank the regulator low side goes crazy the oxygen pours out of the safety valve what is wrong please and thanks. Would installing a CGA320 be a good idea? How to Troubleshoot Common Pressure Regulator Problems, Fluid System Evaluation and Advisory Services, Sampling System Evaluation and Advisory Services, Process Analyzer Sampling System (PASS) Subsystem, Sampling System Problem Solving and Maintenance (SSM), How to Optimize Semiconductor ALD Processes, Selecting Materials for Corrosion Resistance, How Mechanical Grip Fittings Can Optimize Oil and Gas Assets, Tube Cutting Tools and More: Five Essential Fluid System Tools, How to Fix Common Grab Sampling Deficiencies, How to Flatten a Regulator Flow Curve to Reduce Droop, Back-Pressure Regulator Set-Up: Tips for Sampling System Engineers, Managing Supply Pressure Effect (SPE) in a Regulator. This takes liquid co2 from the bottom of the cylinder, as used for pipe freezing. Some manufacturers will use lok-tite. Another type of regulator is called a flow gauge.

ironhorse64 (author) on February 22, 2012: @anonymous: The pressure on the low side of the regulator will read different wile gas is moving as to when it is shut off. For example, if the regulator set pressure is at 70 psi, and flow increases without anything being done to the regulator to compensate, it is likely that pressure will drop below your 70-psi target. You must log in or register to reply here. Sounds to me like you have a cylinder with a dip tube fitted. This page was generated at 04:20 PM. In the case of SPE, some regulator options can mitigate this phenomenons effects better than others. Your first step in troubleshooting is to examine your process requirements, including system flow, system pressure, system temperature, process sensitivity, and system media all of which are important to deciding if you have the correct type of regulatorinstalled. To trouble shoot, I backed my "set screw" (adjustor for low side) all the way out so nothing was coming to the low side. Plus it is not a good idea to change fittings on the oxygen regulator to fit an argon or any other cylinder. Ice is usually from the cold oxygen freezing moisture on or around the regulator. I'm hearing mixed things from different people so I would like to bring this up in a topic, recently I purchased a 200dx syncowave that came with a gas regulator. Some shops send them in to an "authorized repair center" That's pricey. To me, the whole purpose of buying a top-shelf name brand like Victor would be so that I could go to the parts counter at my local shop and get the components or kits that I need to do the repair. Some places do like yours. This is why we never use oil on regulators. This houses a second regulator or a "stage." The outlet pressure gauge is working though. Carbon Dioxide is one of the more versatile gases. Honestly unless I hear compelling information, I'd rather buy them cheap and just replace them. Snoop! If the regulator is controlling a high rate of CO2 the body of the regulator becomes cold enough that it doesn't allow the CO2 in the cylinder to warm enough to create CO2 gas. That's on a MM 251, MM 350P and a Dynasty 200DX. Then his lights came on and realized the warning was "USE NO OIL." Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. bad gauge?50lb tank, viagrow reg. There's no way of knowing if it's leaking a little or not. Carbon dioxide is pumped into the cylinder as a liquid and the pressure reaches only about 850psi. I had never heard of it, so I asked a coworker if he knew. Step 3. Argon cylinders are filled to a pressure of about 2200 PSI and your acetylene regulator tops out at 400 PSI. nVv9q|iZZ Mb zUNoz[=[/EmS~q[poM)o786]M1ldc&KiK1@[20lHdte^.=6#$ (I have a wye with two small check valves for attaching two lines). ironhorse64 (author) on February 25, 2012: @anonymous: My first thought is that the pressure gauge is defective. There are CO2 regulators that do not have the float tube but use a dial gauge instead. This process is continued until the liquid is almost gone. @anonymous: The only regulators that I have seen that have left handed thread are those that are used for beverage dispensing. I also notice that it is a British thread instead of a CGA320, while it connect firmly, I'm not sure if I should replace the British Nut and Nipple to a CGA320. Sound like you might have a CGA 580 for Helium, Nitrogen or argon. Just order up the exact size and pressure gauge as the defective one. I pulled apart regulator seat and seals look great. @anonymous: If you have gas leaking from the relief valve you are wasting a lot of gas as well as having a safety hazard. @anonymous: There is locktite placed on the threads from the factory that make it difficult. Given that I can't find it online, the answer to this question must be staring me in the face, but does the cylinder pressure gauge on an oxyacetylene setup tell me how how much gas in left in the tank? It can be used as a shielding gas for welding, carbonation for sodas, dispensing beer, and even making dry ice. What are your thoughts about this. There is a certain amount of oxygen residue left behind and can result in a fire. Continuing to use this site means you agree to our use of cookies. is a totally safe liquid that is applied to places where two pieces come together.

It may not display this or other websites correctly. I forgot to mention that it is a non-adjustable single stage regulator. In its simplest terms, if you need to control pressure from a source before it arrives at the main process, then you need a pressure-reducing regulator. You will likely see either a drop or increase in pressure downstream, and each of these instances can compromise the quality and safety of your process. What do I know I am just an electronics technician. stream If you have determined that this is what is causing your issues, move on to Step 3. I still get leak down over the course of a few hours.

Millermatic Passport; Millermatic 350P, Dynasty 300DX TIGRunner, http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72rx/leak002.jpg, http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/welding/machines/gss/, If this is your first visit, be sure to I would go to your co2 supplier or a welding supply in your area and ask them to hook up your regulator to a full cylinder and test it. Check local welding supply where you get your gas, See what they want to rebuild it. did this to 3 gauges. To this day it is still my favorite story. From "To Kill a Mockingbird". The first is a phenomenon called creep, which can occur just after the first commissioning of a regulator when installation debris is flowed through the system. "It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and you see it through to the end no matter what." Should gauge be replaced? @anonymous: Sounds like the safeties are blown. This would repeat. What might also be happening is the CO2 that was once flowing through the low pressure side has now stopped flowing with the solenoid off and that gas may have warmed up do to the ambient air and has expanded creating more pressure. Weldequip has sold a bunch that will also work with Argon mixes with an adapter.

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