To have your product or service considered for listing here as an endorsed brand email SwimmingPoolSteve@gmail.com. They hear that rigid is better in every way and they use this to install their pool.
We regularly publish new blogs and content that will help you become more comfortable and confident with our products. On a related note: Running an air line under the pool will prevent the removal of the water used for pressurization. In order to keep this resource about pools and spas available for free to all readers I earn commissions for purchases made through links on this page. The Swimming Pool Steve blog To grow the pool and spa industry, we need to appeal to the deepest desires of our customers. It is believed they do not target it as a food source but will eat through any flexible PVC between their nest and a food source they want to get to. Flex PVC is less labor for the plumber to circle around a spa. They come in different shapes and sizes and provide fun for the whole family. The reason is simple: TFPC (Trouble Free Pool Care) is a methodology, not a product that you must purchase. Indiana Inground Pools- What Type of Piping is Best for Our Swimming Pools? That same year we went to the national pool show in Atlantic City and we saw that one manufacturer of flex pipe was now stamping his flex pipe not for underground use (a clear CYA move)in response to the insect issue. Pool and Spa, Topics: Make sure they pressure test before the pipes get buried and if it were me I'd follow the pipes to make sure where they connect up to the various places along the run makes sense as you took these guys out of their comfort zone with the pipe switch. Of course pool systems would never operate this high, only up to 30 PSI, but it gives you an idea of how robust these pipes are. As with pretty much everything else in the pool industry there are no straight, black or white answers, only long technical considerations that you must apply versus your own priorities for your pool. Are they going to replace the two flex PVC pipes in the deep end of the pool? 
- Swimming Pool Steve, Copyright 2021 - All Rights Reserved - www.SwimmingPoolSteve.com. Well, that was new. www.PoolSuppliesCanada.ca
Pool owners with extensive leaks buried in their system would most likely trade for an actual poltergeist instead of their leaking pool. 
Pool equipment pads on the other hand should always and only be installed with rigid pipe. Black poly pipe can lose it's flexibility in cold weather and could potentially be hard to work with. They went and bought some of the 1.5 pvc pipes and 3/4 grey pipes. Periodic water hammer can cause joints to fail. Certainly this will cost extra, take longer, require more experience and still results in elevated levels of risk which are potentially not there with flex pipe. Not a huge deal but steel wall pools usually spec 8" for the collar I couldnt get away with that here. Here are some of the pix. Designed by Barcelona-based architecture studio MESURA, this Spanish home was built to embrace the natural beauty of rural Catalonia. A skillful plumber using the RIGHT MATERIALS can greatly reduce your risk of future leaks. But termites do not penetrate hardpipe and hardpipe is REAL PIPE. The connection is then secured using two stainless steel clamps over the outside of the pipe and insert fitting as opposed to glued PVC fittings. Could you guys take a look at these pix, and make sure its done right? If you are trying to move a few hundred feet of 10' sticks of rigid PVC that will be tough without a decent roof rack. Flexible tubing is not rated for hot water applications. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The grey conduit is for electrical the white is plumbing. Rigid PVC is superior in every way that you can possibly measure, but if you live in a cold climate area the risk of rigid pipes shattering from forces like the point of a rock, or from movement of the ground during freeze and thaws becomes worryingly high. Flex pipe is not a guaranteed problem and in my area of Ontario Canada almost all swimming pools are plumbed entirely with flex. Explore the ingenious applications of landscape and architectural lighting. I am not too comfortable with dirt under the auto fill for support, I hope they fix it with crushed stone tomorrow. Long term you are more likely to have problems with it. The application of heat softens the tubing, weakening joints and promoting joint and tubing failure. Clear Comfort's patented hydroxyl-based advanced oxidation systems (AOP) represent the pinnacle of water care technology available to pool and spa owners. Tags: New pool owner guide You are using an out of date browser. It is not abrasion resistant. I thought I discussed and insisted on rigid underground plumbing pipes because of all the discussion on this forum. First I would like to clarify, if you live in an area that does not experience significant freezing temperatures in the winter then your pool should be entirely, 100% constructed using rigid PVC pipes. JavaScript is disabled. Flexible PVC is not as durable as rigid PVC. Flexible PVC also has striations in the pipe which are actually fairly detrimental to flow efficiency. Advantages of flexible PVC pipe - None. FLEX PIPE IS NOT PIPE. If you are interested in more information about PVC and flex PVC pressure ratings and burst ratings you can find more information in this article about pressure testing pools.
Have a question - ask Steve These photos depict the proper way to plumb a spa, or other curvy layout. Thanks to your guys insights. I don't understand it. Let's dive in! For example, if you only had a car and no truck but you needed to pick up a few hundred feet of pipewell the flex PVC sure would be a lot easier to deal with by tossing a few rolls into the trunk, a few in the back seat and maybe even one neatly seatbelted into the passenger seat of your car. keep my fingers crossed that the plumber knows how to do it right. Thats very kind of you to remind me of that. If flexible pvc is placed in between a termite and a food source, or if the termites like to eat cellulose, termites can eat their way through flex pipe. Flexible tubing does not have an NSF-61 rating for potable water. Cuz they were saying that they have been working for this PB for 11 yrs and has always been flex PVC. Any new postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. Dimensionally, it does not meet the standard for Schedule 40 PVC pipe, though it does fit inside Schedule 40 fittings. Termite damage to flexible PVC is mostly regarded as an issue in hotter, drier climates where termites in general are far more plentiful. Artist Samantha French has a knack for capturing the essence of water movement in her oil paintings. Dont need the drains anyway. When it comes to ordering pool and spa supplies online in Canada www.PoolSuppliesCanada.ca is by far the best option. It also requires the use of an expensive pipe bender to use correctly. flex is more expensive, now the PB wants to charge more money. Barbed insert fittings are used to join together sections of the poly pipe. What construction practices are best, This is not to say only flex pipe can do this but more so that it is pretty easy to to install flex in such a way that it will survive cold winters. The water in the pipes itself can also be a target for these pests who can easily chew through and turn your plumbing lines into underground sprinklers! Black poly pipe is insect proof, the PVC insert connections can withstand some freezing or ground movement without breaking and has a greater chemical and bacteria resistance. They twist tied electric conduits with the 1.5 pipes and tied to the pool wall supporting rods. Hello , This is an inactive thread. Pool plumbing pvc piping is available in Schedule 40 and Schedule 80 in diameters of 1/2 to 8 inches. New Black + Decker variable speed pumps are available online from www.PoolPartsToGo.com and they are a drop in replacement for many popular pump models including Pentair Superflo and Hayward Super Pumps. Pipe that is 2" in diameter can hold pressure of 166 PSI. So hardpipe is the better choice in Indiana. (the pressure ratings are not the same as schedule 40 pipe.) It's a shortcut you shouldn't take. It saves time. Thank you. Schedule 20 should never be used on any swimming pool or spa system. Tips for reducing water waste through good design practice and proper maintenance. In some areas flexible PVC use outnumbers any other option at 100:1 which might lead a lot of people to ask if flex PVC is so bad why it is used more than any other plumbing material in some areas? It is not resistant to insects. Sold per foot, corrosion resistant PVC pipes are used in most swimming pool applications for fluid transfer. The connections are made by solvent welding using standard sch 40 slip fittings, the exact same as installing rigid PVC pipe.
Local store prices may vary from those displayed. So is that it, just easier to transport? Pool and spa chemistry crash course Your PB will be long gone by then and doesnt care. I am almost NEVER asked how we plumb our pools.
But is this good advice that you are getting? One final note is that flex pipe might be able to resist shattering better than rigid pipe in cold weather but a problem unique to flexible PVC is that it can crush flat from earth compaction or even from the suction of the pump itself in extreme cases. Also worth noting is that termites can damage flexible PVC from chewing through it. Flexible tubing moves around during the shotcrete process, creating voids and cavities (which allow it to move, flex and expand under pressure). A skilled builder might be able to protect rigid pipes in cold climate areas with concrete raceways, very deep trenches below the frost line, extensive bedding with aggregates like sand, vermiculite or self compacting, high-drainage aggregate like birdseye pea gravel. Thats what the PB told me today that he will put crushed stones under and above the pipes to protect it from settling movements. 
One thing I notice is how little concrete he used for the collar. But this is important stuff. May 2021 Oversize Pentair Cartridge Filter/Pump and rigid PVC Upgrade, With over 300,000 members, TFP is the largest and most influential pool & spa website on the Internet. You want laminar flow. e6)EIgf"{lf||U7$8GzR'F5'_)F]TH_rGetd|lF hV23dp",5g;p~Y7U?K Need Help? Ad' xV (1H[Tw - Swimming Pool Steve To put a complex technology simply, if you are looking for the best possible water care system for your pool or spa then you are looking for a Clear Comfort AOP system. In areas where you do not have freeze and thaw cycles in the winter I do not believe there is a valid argument for anything other than rigid PVC both above and below ground. If back filled with rock or sharp objects, holes can develop. And 2" pipe is better than 1 1/2" pipe as it carries more water and makes for much better hydraulics. Most customers just dont know enough to even ask this question. Schedule 40 Hardpipe takes more time to install and requires greater skill to use correctly. Flexible tubing can collapse under vacuum pressure. The PB says that's what he has been been using for all his pools and he will pad and fill with gravel to protect it. But what are the right plumbing materials for an Indiana Swimming Pool? Please note that these endorsements can include monetary compensation, affiliate links and referral fees to Swimming Pool Steve, however there is zero additional cost to you should you use one of these products or services. The thinner walled variety of rigid PVC is schedule 20 which is often used for conduits or for central vacuum systems in houses. So, while we call it "flexible pvc pipe" in reality it's a hose that fits into schedule 40 fittings. Flex pipe allows for a certain amount of fudge factor with tight connections. Is salt water bad for pools? hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(4921841, '9b1f5501-c7a0-4188-b0f7-6d554f45c741', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Head over to Boshart's Knowledge Base: technical product information, guidelines, and more. The PB had agreed to change to rigid PVC. Do the concrete collar look ok? The ability to resist freezing temperatures without shattering as well as being able to move somewhat along with heaving ground from freeze and thaw conditions is what defines the usefulness of flexible PVC. TIMES HAVE CHANGED; FLEX PIPE DISCREDITED. Finally, the main reason why flex is actually used, is simply that it is more shatter resistant in cold climate areas. Variable speed pool pump reviews Please consider. Schedule 80 pipe can also be used, but is not necessary and generally more expensive compared to the Sch 40 so is not commonly found in pool plumbing. Use of this site is subject to certain Terms Of Use. Many, many builders right here in Central Indiana are still using flex pipe but I think it is time to stop and make the switch to hard pipe. Most visitors online was 3404 , on Jan 24 2020, Plumbing Question, Rigid PVC, Union Fitting. At BoshartU, our goal is to equip you and your team with the knowledge you need to be more successful. The flex down to the main drains is typical nobody uses ridgid except some OCD guy around here that heat bends pipe. Let's take a step back here for a moment and review what this information means.
Flexible tubing cannot handle pressure exceeding 60 PSI. In areas with severe winters the line becomes blurred more easily and flex pipe becomes a safer choice for people who are not confident with their ability to use and protect rigid pipe properly. Newsletter for Pool and Spa Professionals. Never use flex on an equipment pad. The most common pipe used for in-ground pool plumbing is rigid PVC pipe, but you could also see flexible PVC pipe or black poly pipe being used. Flexible PVC pipe is used more and more in new swimming pool installations. Products shown as available are normally stocked but inventory levels cannot be guaranteed, For screen reader problems with this website, please call 1-800-430-3376 or text 38698 (standard carrier rates apply to texts), True schedule 40 - uses standard schedule 40 fittings & PVC glue, Used for pools, spas, water gardens and fountains applications, FDA non-toxic formulation UV and antimicrobial resistant. Proof of variable speed pump savings Is rigid PVC better than flexible PVC? The elastic nature of the tubing's side walls allows it to flex. Water hammer will cause flexible tubing to move, expand and flex. When it comes to the technical process of waterproofing concrete pools Basecrete is the most effective product that I know of. Each type of pipe has is pros and cons, weighing each to determine which are important to you will allow for a smooth installation process so you and your family can enjoy the pool without any worries! We are texting back and forth with the PB right now.
The additives in the tubing gradually degrade over time, leading to failures. I think it rained rt after concrete was poured. If you want to continue learning about pools and spas from an industry expert follow swimming pool Steve on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube Thx. Finally the solvent welded connections with flex PVC are less sound than a rigid pipe welded to a rigid fitting. Flexible pipe contains cellulose and is not resistant to insects, in particular, termites (if present) eat it. In a perfect world of apples to apples comparisons rigid PVC beats the heck out of flex PVC. 'XYJ4]Ljwd 5/J6gLab^Oy??vu9bHW=21y8)]uv)x&XDE$,gY;c.
Keeping Clients Happy Through the Long Build Process. I have seen this failure many times in hot tubs where flex was used as it is easier than heating and bending rigid PVC. Thanks. It might be but depending on where you are located you could end up making a decision about your plumbing materials that comes back to haunt you. tj@E You will get much more visibility by, DF5098C2-4F51-4FF4-B817-11E57AAC229C.jpeg, A5AF93CC-0384-4C82-9AF9-374A96E07503.jpeg, 7AF4A268-B6DF-49FF-AE18-E57A62923898.jpeg, C42ECBE2-5F6E-4D63-9AD3-F7DA7798F546.jpeg, 698A89DF-3D14-4FD8-955D-44E597486465.jpeg, D1A99429-5A28-4790-95FC-1CE7359C5CF1.jpeg, 68F75022-3374-487F-860F-A34B9C6D85AF.jpeg, 09069BE7-3849-403D-A203-F334624A4B17.jpeg, 4552DA24-0D9E-4388-B112-B588FB7E7F60.jpeg, 30C985E6-81F1-4CD0-8E6E-70FB96144B35.jpeg. It's not specified in the contract. Service life for these pipes can easily meet and exceed 25 or 30 years, perhaps longer, which clearly shows that for some installations flex can be easy, forgiving and still have an impressively long service life. No way would I accept that flex PVC pipes running to the bottom of your pool. Indiana Swimming Pool Issues. How to keep customers happy and informed through the long build process. If you are using builder lengths which are 20' with a bell end then good luck moving those with a car at all. 2000-2022 Home Depot. The following links and products are to affiliates of the Swimming Pool Steve website. They were thus suggesting the use of hardpipe (this was a change from past advice we had received). What are some of the cool options for an inground, What are the key questions for a pool buyer. Pool builders in my neck of the woods put a heavy concrete collar and leave the pipes exposed after the pool is filled with pumps running to monitor for any leaks. THE WINNER- HARDPIPE YOUR INDIANA INGROUND POOL! Hi all, run into some issues with plumbing with my inground pool install. With over 50k items online and The Poolweb Product Guarantee to back them up - it's no wonder that this is the internet's fastest growing commercial pool supply store!
These are brands, products and services hand selected by Steve for endorsement. They carry everything from chemicals to replacement pumps to entire pool kits, with free shipping options and more "in stock" items than any other Canadian online retailer. Does this mean that flex PVC is bad and if you use it your pool will leak? /Rttm%fH~ }iw:w Dig through our best stories from the magazine, all sorted by category for easy surfing. Endorsed Brands From Swimming Pool Steve
Rigid PVC has a very high operating pressure rating (and burst pressure rating) which is far, far higher than what many people believe. PVC tubing and hose are not approved for plumbing in-ground pools (IAPMO 311.1-311.3). With all of these reasons not to use flexible tubing, why would you? There are a number of reasons why flexible tubing should not be used to plumb concrete pools. Rigid PVC pipe being used to plumb a pool should be a minimum Schedule 40 which is the standard for pool plumbing pipe. Some rather stunning, recent vinyl projects and the builders that brought them to life. www.ClearComfort.com It's common to zip tie to the support but not a fan of too many together as gravel will not fill that void easily. The annedotal pool evidence is that Indiana now has more termites than it used to have. )JVG$Bm7'Vgz,[aO8%0K0cD6Q#C1L L=2mLU?E)1t}_VD80ds-+ujfDC0c=#UdI;Y1bgXe@wd#h;]o%sza4.Y$2$ajiKeUSVhxm[ >kfVr=x_wB^$5)xqOii Pool plumbing is the phrase to describe the pipes, fittings and valves that transfer the water through the system. Pool and Spa. - Here is a question that can get a straight answer. Please call us at: 1-800-HOME-DEPOT (1-800-466-3337), Please enter in your email address in the following format: you@domain.com. Here's an even dozen of the main issues: RELATED: Candidly Learning from Pool Building Mistakes. Polyethylene pipe is flexible black pressure pipe that is commonly used for in-ground pool plumbing. He has a lazy plumbing contractor. I'm guessing you dont have inspections where you are or an engineered plan for the town. Heat bending rigid Schedule 40 with a pipe oven or heat blanket is the correct way to plumb circular or irregularly shaped vessels. The new winner and BEST CHOICE for piping an Indiana inground pool is Schedule 40 Hardpipe. Flexible PVC is also not as UV resistant as rigid PVC and this results in sun damage and early failure to flex PVC that is not protected from the sun. Knowing your options for pipe when installing an in-ground swimming pool will guarantee you make the right choice that is best for your situation. With an adjustable platform base, union connections included and a very strong warranty these pumps offer an impressive value to pool owners. - Swimming Pool Steve This expansion and contraction will cause glue joints to fail. PVC flexible pipe can be damaged by UV rays causing the PVC pipe to weaken over time. Find manufacturers and suppliers in the most extensive searchable database in the industry. THE FLEX PIPE ADVANTAGE. A downside to flexible PVC pipe is it tends to be more expensive compared to rigid pipe and it can be more prone to crushing or puncturing. - Swimming Pool Steve Just kidding. Flexible PVC does have some advantages that even the haters would agree about. Is using flexible PVC or "flex pipe" a valid option for plumbing your swimming pool? Remember when I told you that the maximum operating pressure of 1.5" rigid PVC was 198 PSI, well the maximum operating pressure for flexible PVC hose is a paltry 65 PSI. The flex pipe welded to a rigid fitting can break over time due to the pipe expanding and contracting with pump startup and pipe hammer. We are a registered 501(c)3 non-profit that is funded by user donations. But what lies below the pool? Why would you proudly promote that you use it? Flexible PVC is treated as a hose by the building industry, not a pipe. The suction lines for the pool should be plumbed with 2" pipe to ensure longevity. West Chicago, IL 60185. And the purple glue. When working with new energy efficient swimming pools, 2" plumbing line is the way to go. What is responsible for bringing the water to the pool? Manufacturers and installers are generally notresponsible for flex pipe failure due to insect damage as it is an act of nature. PVC size for small pool: No such thing as too big? Enter your email to sign up for our newsletter! Amazon Disclosure Statement - As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Pool Installation: What Pipe Should you Use? I strongly endorse the use of Basecrete products to all concrete pool owners. Using flex tubing, a common shortcut to this kind of careful installation, should be avoided when encased in concrete. The PB had changed to rigid PVC pipes. With 2" rigid PVC these numbers are 166 PSI for maximum operating pressure. TERMITES IN INDIANA. It is being practiced by thousands of pool owners just like you. Solvent welded pipes are extremely reliable and also can withstand similar pressures when connected properly. Use Up and Down arrow keys to navigate search results. Disadvantages of flexible PVC pipe - First of all flexible PVC is actually hose not pipe, which is an important distinction for those who care about such things, like myself. Thank you. I can not stress enough the importance of using a waterproofing solution for concrete swimming pools. Income generated from these links helps to keep this pool and spa resource available for everyone. Found in between the suction pipes and return pipes are the pool pump, filter and water heater. www.PoolPartsToGo.com No, flex PVC is also really easy to install as you simply roll it out into the trench. Thus, while flex pipe fits Schedule 40 fittings (dimensionally) and can be used in place of schedule 40 pipe for many applications, it does not meet the requirements for schedule 40 pipe. Candidly Learning from Pool Building Mistakes, Ditch the Drought: Thoughtful Swimming Pool Designs That Use Less Water, Vinyl Liner Rips As Sinkhole Opens Underneath Swimming Pool, Killing 1, Revised Energy Standard Meets DOE Pool Pump Rule. The answer, in short, is that swimming pools are dynamic, there are many different kinds of pools and different ways to build them, but more importantly there are different geographic areas which affect what building materials and which construction methods should be used. What should I do now? Post pics of the pool plumbing the way it is right now and let us see if there are any special issues with it. London-based artist Ian Berry specializes in a unique medium: many layers, washes and fades of upcycled blue jeans. SwimmingPoolSteve.com is user-supported. My professional reputation is at risk of being tarnished because I just said a bunch of nice stuff about flex pipe. When it comes to drowning prevention, the Model Aquatic Health Code offers more than meets the eye. Their observations, of course, are limited to Indiana. In hot tubs, especially the jet lines, there is too much pipe hammer and water flow which results in fitting failures over time even when fully encased within concrete! By providing a separate pump for the heating equipment, you can extend the lifecycle of all system components and reduce maintenance. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But I know a lot of pool professionals that would answer that question exactly like that. Any suggestions? Numerous organizations also have published opinion papers against such uses (Genesis Position Statement #3, section 3.3). Oh, and when is "schedule 40" not schedule 40? 2022 AB Media Inc. All rights reserved. Rest assured that we at Perma Pools always spec 2" hardpipe for our pools.
Not necessarily.
The revised ANSI/PHTA/ICC/-15 energy standard meets the DOE variable-speed pump regulations. You would not need to research this question very much before you discovered that the people with opinions on this subject are loud and quick to give you advice. All Rights Reserved. It is not uncommon for termites to bore into flexible tubing. Is that secure enough?
It has the same outside diameter as rigid sch 40 pipe. That sounds a lot like a final answer as to what to use to plumb your pool and for many people it is. Thats why there are big water holes in the concrete collar. The exterior dimensions are irregular, and properly glued joints are virtually impossible to achieve. Many linear feet of water will be trapped in the pipe under the pool. For more information see the full disclaimer page. The elastic properties of flex tubing, which make it ideal for plumbing portable aboveground spas and pools, cause failures when embedded in concrete. Rigid looks and functions so much better here and there is no concern for freezing temps shattering pipes when they are above grade and winterized. Topics: Whether you're a first-time customer or need some new supplies, Poolweb has exactly what your looking for.
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